DL1 <-> DTA S80 Pro connection without DSub?

[Mats]

There are about 20 different topics for something close to this but I don't want to hijack threads. Hope you understand.

On the DL1 connector there are designated pins for data communication and that is also true on the DTA ECU pinout.

Is there a way to use this to log ECU data on the DL1 instead of buying a specific cable for it that use the (IMO) indoor type dsub connector on the DL1 and DTA?
I'm also looking to save a bit of money of course but it would be a lot nicer in the harness to have a proper connection instead of the not-so-weather-proof dsub.
Yes, my racecar has been known to be a bit damp inside when it's raining, and it does rain in Sweden.

I have read topic where the creation of specific .dll files are discussed but I would really appreciate a more specific instructiuon on how to configure the DL1 to accept and log the datastream from the ECU.
The DTA protocol is well documented, a bit difficult to post formatted text here but the spec is like this:

CAN bus Baud Rate - 1 MBd
Identifiers All - 29Bit
4 Data Packets - All 8 Bytes Ea.
Send Frequency - 10Hz

All Data Values 16 bit sent LSB first (little endian)

Found here: Link to DTA site PDF

Anyone?[/code]

[Turby]

The DSUB connector on the DL1 is used for receive RS232 based data streams, so it cannot be used to connect directly to your CAN based ECU. However RT do a ECU CAN adapter which can be used to convert the CAN output from your ECU to the RS232 DSUB on the DL1.

Latex gloves come in handy when it comes to waterproofing the DL1!!!

[Mats]

Thanks for the reply but did you even read my post?

I was hoping to:
-Not have to pay 100GBP for a cable
-Connect directly to the data-stream connector pins on the back (main) connector on the DL1.

Is that possible?

[Turby]

Thanks for the reply but did you even read my post?

yes... but did you understand my response ?

I was hoping to:
-Not have to pay 100GBP for a cable

You still have the option of making your own CAN to RS232 converter using some form of electronic circuit board incorporating a microcontroller, line drivers and custom firmware. I'm guessing you didn't realise the RT "cable" has just such a device in it already...

-Connect directly to the data-stream connector pins on the back (main) connector on the DL1.

I'm sure you could physically connect the pins directly, but CAN and RS232 protocols are simply not interchangeable.

[stevieturbo]

Why cant you just use the DTA's serial stream then ?

MXL's product can use it, and I know of another guy who built his own custom dash display to work from the serial stream too.
Would it be easier than CAN ?


While on the topic of DTA....have you guys actually got a Dash2 up and running from an S80 yet ?

[Turby]

If the DTA provides a RS232 based asynchronous serial stream rather than the CAN based synchronous serial stream you gave in the original post then it is easily possible using a simple RS232 cable. Note that both are serial based data streams.

AFAIK the newer generation DTA Sxx series ECU's use CAN based communications (all there data sheets mention their own purpose built CAN to USB adapter) whereas their earlier ECU's used RS232 based communications.

Maybe its worth dropping DTA a line asking if the S80 supports native RS232 ?

Otherwise it might be possible to use a CAN to USB adapter then a USB to RS232 adapter, though it will probably work out cheaper to buy RT's CAN to RS232 adapter and configure it accordingly.

[Mats]

I read it and understood it but it was all talk about the Dsub which I didn't want to use.

I did not realize the cable had a hardware-translator box on it, the info on the site is not always very clear I'm afraid. That makes the cable quite affordable I'd say.

On the topic of serial vs. CAN, the pinout of the DTA specifically mention "CAN +" and "CAN -" but nowhere mentions Rx, Tx or similar.

So is this CAN-cable possible to use even if I upgrade to incorporate a DASH2 in the future? Looks like a "Y-split" on the cable in the pics but a confirmation would be nice.
Just because the physical interface works doesn't mean the protocol supports it, as we learned earlier in this discussion.

[Turby]

Reading from the CAN / ECU product page...

"The Race Technology CAN interface is a small in-line module for use with a DASH1 or DASH2 display, a DL1 or DL2 data logger or any combination of data logger plus display, to allow data from your engine management system to be displayed and recorded."

So I'm guessing it will do exactly what you want. BUT you will need to investigate if the unit can be configured to handle your ECU - I believe the DTA uses seperate messages for each data channel unlike Motec which use one message for all data channels. Which is why I guess there is a proviso "Please contact Race Technology to confirm compatibility with your ECU."

Have a look in the knowledge base http://www.race-technology.com/wiki/index.php/Hardware/CANInterface and http://www.race-technology.com/wiki/index.php/CANInterface/ConnectingCANToOtherEquipment

If you don't like 9-way DSUB's (the DL1 isn't waterproof unlike the DL2 which is sealed to IP67) then you could open the case up, unsolder the DSUB connector, solder some wires onto the circuit board where the DSUB joined the circuit board, then connect the other end of the wires to a waterproof connector. Lastly seal the hole where the leads come through the case (I presume thorugh the slot where the 9-pin DSUB connector was) with a bit "dollop" of silicon sealer. I expect the warranty may be voided though!

The easy alternative is put the logger and connectors in another waterproof box and use silicon to seal where the comms leads enter and exit. I'm sure theres a picture of a similar setup on the forum elsewhere.

[stevieturbo]

If the DTA provides a RS232 based asynchronous serial stream rather than the CAN based synchronous serial stream you gave in the original post then it is easily possible using a simple RS232 cable. Note that both are serial based data streams.

AFAIK the newer generation DTA Sxx series ECU's use CAN based communications (all there data sheets mention their own purpose built CAN to USB adapter) whereas their earlier ECU's used RS232 based communications.

Maybe its worth dropping DTA a line asking if the S80 supports native RS232 ?

Otherwise it might be possible to use a CAN to USB adapter then a USB to RS232 adapter, though it will probably work out cheaper to buy RT's CAN to RS232 adapter and configure it accordingly.

I communicate with my S80 via RS232. A friend uses his MXL via RS232 ( with an adaptor )
A guy on the DTA forum built his own dash display, which communicates via RS232.

I know little about such matters, but it seems the RS232 comms with the new S-series is very similar to their older P8Pro, and EXP48 ecu's

In short...the DTA can communicate via either RS232, or CAN, serial being more common as the CAN adaptor is expensive.

[Mats]

Turby: It's not the waterproofness of the case I'm worried about, it's the way "indoor type" connectors tend to suffer from surface rust in no time at all in cars. The actual weight of the connector and the way I'm attacking the curbs does not inspire confidence either.

Stevieturbo: That is very interesting, where do you hook up to extract the actual data stream? The dsub on the S80 case?

[stevieturbo]

If the DTA forum starts working again, you can ask Marco. He's the guy that built his own display.

but currently, all my comms ( only laptop mind you ) are via the 15 pin connector on the side, exactly same as the old P8Pro.

Marco's dash display works with all the DTAA units...so the serial strea must be the same, or very similar.

Forum isnt working for me at the minute...but here it is anyway.

http://dtaforum.psycode.com/

[Mats]

Got the reply from DTA:

"RS232 Stream

The following data is transmitted on pin 2 of the serial connection port at a frequency of 10Hz.

Header Bytes

Data (all 16 bits, binary, LSB first)

RPM
Throttle %
Water Temp C
Air Temp C
Manifold Pressure Kpa
Lambda (Unit Less)
Battery V (X10)
Undriven Wheel Speed Kph (x10)
Oil Pressure Kpa
Fuel Pressure Kpa
Oil Temperature C

Check Sum

16 bit subtractive Check Sum, including header bytes.

all RS232 levels at

57600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop bit, no parity

At 10Hz frequency."

Now, reading on the main RT site:
"DL1 Serial Ports
2 separate ports. Port 1 fixed at a baud rate of 115200 baud. Whilst logging outputs all data from all channels at 100Hz. Also used for reflashing, diagnostics and configuration. Port 2 used for inputting RS232 data for storage during a run, from an ECU, OBDII adapter or any other compatible device. "

Which port is which? Is Port 1 the dsub?
Can I use the DTA serial stream in through Port 2 (SRx?) and log it in the DL1?
I have pretty much used up all the analog inputs with the brake pressure sensors and linear pots for wheel position and steering wheel angle so it would be nice to be able to get some engine stats in the logs as well.

[Dan in Saint Louis]

Which port is which? Is Port 1 the dsub?

From the DL1 section of the help files:

Serial Port
This single connector actually connects to 2 serial ports. The first port allows access to the DL1 processor for upgrading the internal firmware and streaming data. The second serial port allows direct access to the GPS module for either updating it's firmware or monitoring it's output directly either for the purposes of checking the GPS functionality or for 3rd party applications e.g. navigation software.


PIN DESCRIPTION
1 N/C
2 RX - Main Data In
3 TX - Main Data Out
4 TX - GPS Data Out
5 GND
6 RX GPS Data In
7 +12v Out ( 50 mA limit)
8 N/C
9 N/C

[Mats]

Interesting, thanks.

I'll come back once I have hooked everything up and have done some practical tests.